Speaker 1: 0:00

What's up guys? Welcome to another special episode of the FU Podcast. You guys know that majority of this existence of the podcast has been some Greek-Italian guy yakking into the bottom of his phone. About last year I started to bring on some guests. I really enjoyed talking to people. I really enjoyed getting some different voices onto this podcast and I started doing it last year and I'm continuing doing roughly once a month Don't hold me to that, but roughly once a month of having a guest on to talk about some great things that they're doing.

Speaker 1: 0:35

As with Joint Ventures pretty particular on who I bring onto the podcast, I want you to introduce you guys to people that are doing really good work. I've had Ari Weinsbeck on the podcast. I've had Mark O'Donnell from EOS on the podcast. I've had some really awesome guests and today is going to be another doozy. We have Jay Croft on the line, the author new author of a book called Selling Longevity, which we'll talk about today.

Speaker 1: 1:04

But where I discovered him was on his podcast called the Optimal Aging Podcast. And if you are training people, majority of you guys that follow me are doing stuff with the 40 plus market. I think that we've all realized that college kids don't have a lot of money, so let's not train college kids. And you're realizing that the guy that's 50 years old, that's making a couple million a year, he can afford training all day long, so let's figure out a way to get him into the gym. But I first heard Jay on his podcast I think it was when I heard you do an episode with my friend, rick Mayo, who we have a common friend in, and it was a great episode. I listened to it and then I started listening to other episodes.

Speaker 1: 1:46

So quick plug for Jay's podcast, the Optimal Aging Podcast, if you're looking for marketing ideas, and one of the things I love about Jay is he's a marketing guy and a writer too marketing mind and a writer, and he'll get into his background on journalism in a little bit. But, yeah, doing some really good. So check out the Optimal Aging podcast. In addition to, we'll give you the info and insight on his new book Selling Longevity, which hit one of the bestseller lists, which I'm very proud of for you, jay. Good work. But, jay, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2: 2:19

Vince, thanks for having me and thanks for that kind introduction. I really appreciate it. And Thanks for having me and thanks for that kind introduction. I really appreciate it. And I had you on Optimal Aging about a year ago when your most recent book came out, and it was fantastic because we are talking to a lot of the same audience and pursuing a lot of the same goals. I appreciate the chance to come on and talk about all of this stuff. Don't wind me up too much because you might have a tough time getting me off to stop talking.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Very good. Let's give the audience a little background on you. You don't have the typical, you don't have the typical entry into the fitness field as a gym owner, but tell us what you've been doing and what led you to the point of what you're doing to write this book and have that podcast.

Speaker 2: 3:03

Absolutely so I so. My background was in communications, professional communications. I was primarily a newspaper journalist for many years. That's what I trained to do and wanted to do and did for about 20 years, rising through the ranks of daily mainstream newspapers in various cities across the country. And I concluded my career with 10 or 11 years here in Atlanta at the Journal of Constitution. I was a hard news beat reporter and then I was a features editor, had a good mix of all of that.

Speaker 2: 3:32

And then smartphones and the internet came along and pretty much destroyed the newspaper industry. So I stumbled out of that disaster in my 40s and fell into corporate communications at some giant multi-billion dollar corporations here in Atlanta and did not like it, did not succeed in it. Kind of cubicle farms, nine to five, office politics, all that stuff. It just didn't suit me. And so right around the time I turned 50, I thought thought I got to find a new way to make a living. What am I going to do? And, long story short, that was around the same time that I noticed that the fitness industry was no longer interested in me, and it's difficult to say exactly what happened that opened my eyes to this. I don't remember what it was. I remember I was at the gym.

Speaker 1: 4:21

I was on a piece of Well, all you say was no longer interested in you as a customer. Correct, yeah, yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2: 4:27

Yes, I had just turned 50. I was at the gym that I've been going to for years and I was looking at something a trade publication or a mainstream magazine, I don't remember what and all the marketing was just all about boys and girls too, and I don't mean younger men than me, all about boys and girls too, and I don't mean younger men than me, 22-year-old boys who want huge biceps and six-pack abs. And that was it. And I thought, damn, you're missing out on something, because I've been going to a gym my whole life. I'm very comfortable in a gym. If I go out of town, I find one, I spend money at gyms, I use a trainer, I buy supplements, all these things and suddenly I'm invisible. And the thing that it reminded me of is when, if you're ever driving in a car with teenagers and they're singing along to the songs on the radio and you have no idea what that song is or who the singer is, right, that's because you aged out of pop music. And I felt the same thing, that I had aged out of the marketing target for fitness, and so I thought let me check this. I'm a reporter. I had aged out of the marketing target for fitness and so I thought let me check this. I'm a reporter, I can find out if this is true or just my emotional reaction to something. And it's true.

Speaker 2: 5:33

The industry is primarily historically focused on specifically people in their twenties who have no money and want no service. And we'll find a new gym and a heartbeat and go across town to the new gym, new club, whatever. And I thought this just doesn't make sense. So I looked into it, did my due diligence and found out that there was this opportunity for content marketing. And content marketing had really grabbed my attention during my corporate years, in my time between being a journalist and getting into fitness this idea of using my skills as a journalist to gather information and tell stories and communicate to masses of people, but for a different purpose. And that purpose with content marketing is to get consumers to buy a product or buy a service or engage in something. So I saw this as an opportunity to start a content marketing firm, company interest, whatever you want to call it. That would help gyms reach more people like me, more people over 50 who have the time and the money and the desire to become good, long-term, high-paying customers. And since then it's just grown.

Speaker 2: 6:46

I'm servicing a lot of gyms all across the country. I've got some in Canada, some in some other countries even where they speak English at least because I don't speak any other languages and I create marketing content for email, newsletters and Facebook and Instagram and blog posts, things like that people then use in their gyms and studios, then use in their marketing to tell their communities that they want to help people who are a little bit older. I'm not talking about geriatric care, I'm talking about 50-ish and over. Some people are saying 40 and over. It's roughly the same thing and it's the idea is that you distinguish yourself in your community from all these other gyms by saying, hey, I can help you, I want to help you and I want your money because you've got more of it than those kids do. So that's my background, how I got into this, and then I wrote the book because it was an outgrowth of all of this great information and fantastic stories that I've accumulated over the years.

Speaker 1: 7:49

It's very funny that this very concept that you kind of created of what market to go into is very similar to when I was working in San Diego. I was a trainer in San Diego and I was working with a lot of NFL players and it was really cool to work with NFL players and I was also working with high-level college athletes and even the highest-level high school athletes and I found myself getting really excited about working with those people and not as excited about working with the mom and pop and I realized after a while that one there's not nearly as many professional athletes in high level college and high level high school athletes as there are these normal people. Yeah, and while it is more exciting and cool to be like working with Luis Castillo and Donnie Edwards and Quentin Jammer who actually anyone listening to this probably has no idea who those people are I'm dating I'm definitely dating myself, with name dropping. Apologies to the pro athletes that I just mentioned, but at one point in time these were household names in the.

Speaker 1: 9:01

NFL. But at the end of the day, that's what shaped my start in business. When I moved back to New Jersey, I said, hey, you know what? I'm not going to focus on those guys. I had my fill. It was fun, it was cool, but I want to make some money in this career.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:18

And I realized that the middle school athlete was the most unchartered territory in all of sports performance no one's even talking about these kids and I built my entire business around that middle school athlete it's the exact same thing and then eventually came around to working with adults over 40, as your market is. But I think it comes from people wanting the cool and exciting client right. They want to be like, excited by the client. They want to get someone that's 10% body fat to 5% body fat and that's more exciting and they can use more of their knowledge to get to this next level. But a lot of times that's like the last 5% of people. So I think you're right on the money with creating a marketing niche for this market and I think people, I think you're in the. You're in a perfect spot right now because people are starting to see they didn't see it when you first started doing it, when I first started doing it, none of us saw it, but I think people are seeing the writing on the wall in this space. They're starting to see that more people are going after this market for you.

Speaker 1: 10:26

So I have a question. So I read through your book and it's a great. You did a great job. It's a great book. It's simple, it's clear. My first question is about the psychographics part of it, because I learned from the great Dan Kennedy there's three parts of marketing, right. There's the geographics, it's where they live. It's the demographics, it's the facts about them, and then it's the psychographics, about the people age 50 plus. Can you go into that, because I know that was a whole section of your book. The title of this chapter was why Psychographics Matter. Why do psychographics matter in marketing for people age 50 plus?

Speaker 2: 11:04

Yeah, again, I come at this from a slightly different angle. I come at it from the question of this is interesting. What's going on here and what are the cliches and the stereotypes and the common misconceptions that are out there? And then how can I find out if they're real or not? And then that's what I set out to do. So maybe a more classically trained marketer would come at it.

Speaker 2: 11:28

From what are the psychographics behind this demographic? It's not how I came at it, but I just think it's fascinating to hear a young trainer or not even a young one, I'm sorry this happens a lot with veteran trainers and gym owners talk about how they want a D1 athlete. D1 athletes don't need you, do they? Good luck with that right. People who need you are the ones you should be going after.

Speaker 2: 11:51

So you need to find out who needs me and you were genius to realize that middle school athletes were there and needing your services, and it's the same thing. So you find out who's most likely to be a good customer for me. And then, who are they? What makes them tick? What do they want? What are they afraid of? How can I find out? And people who are a little bit older and I'm just going to say over 50, if anybody out there listening has decided to focus on people over 40 or people over 60, or women after menopause or men after retirement or whatever, it's the same If you're home listening to this and you're doing 40 plus, which a lot of people do.

Speaker 1: 12:29

This is more than relevant to you, because I guarantee you you're having people that are 50 and over for sure?

Speaker 2: 12:35

Yeah, exactly. First of all, you got to think about what are your misconceptions about them? A lot of younger people in their 20s and 30s and maybe even their 40s, think of over 50 as being ancient and being grandparent level and being previous generations of old. And I'm 61 years old and I guess I'd look at I don't really care. I've got gray hair and wrinkles and that's fine. But I know that when I walk into a gym that I've never been in before, the kid behind the counter doesn't see me. He sees right through me because he just sees an old guy and thinks that guy is not someone I'm interested in. He doesn't know how much money I have in my pocket or how much I want to spend at his gym. He doesn't know what drives me to come into a gym people who are a little bit older to get in shape or stay in shape.

Speaker 2: 13:26

I discovered that there are some really common motivators they want to play with their grandkids and feel safe and confident doing that, and they want to be able to get up off the floor and climb up the slide with them and all those things. They want to be able to travel and traveling just getting on an airplane can be exhausting. You got to schlep your bags through the airport and put the bag in the overhead compartment and stand in line and do all these things, let alone something more challenging like hiking or skiing. They want to stay in good health. We have a lot of chronic ailments that are commonly associated with being a little bit older. They want to keep their weight in check, all these things. And yeah, maybe they want to look better, but it's not the same thing of I want to look hot at the gym, hot at the beach.

Speaker 1: 14:11

I do think, though, they want to look better.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 14:14

I think that there's a misconception here, jay, with this market and people saying the 50 plus here don't care about losing weight. They don't care about how they look. I think that's total bullshit. I think, whether that's your 50, your 60, you still a hundred percent care about it. It's not the only thing you care about. Which is what. The only thing you care about when you're 22 is how you look. That's it.

Speaker 2: 14:37

That's what I mean. Yeah, that's it. So yeah, of course you're going to have fewer people come in and say, hey, dude, give me some guns. The guy's still going to be really happy when his biceps start coming through. Absolutely, it's just not the main, primary or even solo motivator. But of course everybody wants to look better, we want to feel better and move better and all these basic motivators. We want to continue to play sports, play hockey, play golf, play tennis, work in the yard, garden, whatever. All these things that we like to do that you don't need the gym to do those things when you're 25 or 35. You do when you're 55 or 65 or older. You really need guys like you to help stay strong and have the agility and the stamina to do the things that you like to do with confidence and some degree of proficiency.

Speaker 1: 15:22

So I just climbed Pike's Peak with my buddy with my buddy, joe, and there was another guy that went with us named Mark and Mark, so I'm 46. And it's it's hard for me to fathom that, like I'm four years away from the people that we're talking about here.

Speaker 2: 15:39

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:40

We'll say this. One of the caveats is like the best compliment I've ever gotten was one from my daughter that said to me dad, I'm so glad you're in really good shape, because if you weren't in good shape I probably wouldn't be in good shape either.

Speaker 2: 15:54

Man that's right, it was like the best thing ever.

Speaker 1: 15:56

And again I'm not like I'm fine, I'm doing okay and I still work really hard and everything like that but like to be recognized as setting the good example in your family, like for me that was like a marketing line right, like your kid complimenting you for staying fit. But what I was saying was we went on this Pikes Peak climb and it's a 24 mile total climb. It's 12 miles up, 12 miles down and it's like 13,000 feet of elevation at the top. It's pretty total climb. It's 12 miles up, 12 miles down and it's like 13,000 feet of elevation at the top. It's pretty, pretty tough climb.

Speaker 1: 16:27

But the guy that did it with us, mark, was 57. And he hung the entire time and he was fine. He's a marathon runner, ironman and stuff like that. But I remember saying to him I was like my goal is to do this at 57, just like you, and that was like a big thing. And I think that these I know a driver for me is, as I get older, to be able to try to do things that I used to be able to do when I was younger. And again, I'm never going to be able to bench as much as like I was when I was in college or anything like that. That's fine, but these types of challenges like hiking and other things like that as you get older, there's these like types of whether it's an obstacle, whether it's a race or something like that you can very well stay fit for a really long time while doing that and that was a big motivator for me was seeing Mark at 57 do that.

Speaker 2: 17:27

That's great, yeah, and I've got people in my life who are even older than that, because I'm older than your friend and I can do that. I can climb Pikes Peak tomorrow, at least I think I could. It's been a few years since I've been there, but I think I could. And I've got an older sister who runs Ironman triathlons, as does her friend, who's in her 70s. They live in Alaska, they play on a hockey team.

Speaker 2: 17:49

These are just ordinary people out there living their lives, and there's a lot of them out there who are very comfortable doing all of these things. There's even more who are not comfortable. We've talked about some, about the folks who know their way around a gym, but the vast majority of people in this demographic are, like the vast majority of all Americans, totally deconditioned, overweight, out of shape and scared to death to walk into a gym. So those are some other motivators. But you look at, the reasons why this demographic is so appealing to people listening to this show, in addition to all the things that I've just said, is they've got the money, they've got the drive, they've got the ambition, the idea that some 25-year-old woman comes into your gym and says help me lose 20 pounds so I can go to my sorority reunion.

Speaker 2: 18:39

You can do that. Any trainer in the world can do that Big deal. And then she's never going to come back after her reunion and she's out the door. You help a 55-year-old, 70-year-old retired accountant who's 40 pounds overweight and gets winded to check the mail. You help her go skiing with her grandkids. You help her take her toddler granddaughter to the park and go up the slide with her and come down the slide with her.

Speaker 1: 19:10

You're going to change her life and she will be with you forever. She will never leave you because you have given her life back. The biggest joy of my week is walking through the gym and seeing my 86 year old high school football coach training at my gym yeah it is like one of the it's, he's like a family member and it's like walking through and seeing him working out is just it's incredible.

Speaker 1: 19:29

So I love this market. I have a question for you on the mind of the 50 year old or let's just go 60, since that is you and that's what I love about you is I've had to really study the market through talking to customers and clients and getting in their mind and hearing the things they say and using the things they say in marketing. You're a little different in that you are the person Like you are walking around as the buyer. What are the things that are going through a 60 or 50 to 60 year olds mind when they get to the point where they're like I need to do something about my health? What are the things? What's the? What's the negative thoughts? What's the thoughts, what's the? What's the head trash going on in their mind that gets them to make that decision?

Speaker 2: 20:23

The thing that gets them to make the decision is almost always and we're talking about the people who have been, who are not doing it.

Speaker 1: 20:28

We're not talking about yeah, let's just you think prospects, think what. They're not customers of gyms. Yeah, because there's a substantial they get to a point where they realize I got to do something.

Speaker 2: 20:35

Yeah, I think there's a catalyst in almost all the stories that I tell. It's the classic hero's journey structure. It really applies to this. People who are, let's say, 55, 65 years old. Right around retirement, women have gone through menopause, men are getting that tire around the middle, back aches, joint pain, whatever right, and they just think, oh, I'm getting old, I'm getting old. They know in the back of my mind that they're not just getting old. They know that something's not quite right but they keep putting it off because change is hard and it's intimidating to go into a gym. They haven't been to a gym since college, 40 years ago, and they're afraid that they're going to walk in and be ignored or be treated with disrespect, or they're going to hurt themselves, or they're going to feel for men, they're going to feel less in control and maybe women are going to feel judged because they're overweight. What have you All these things, man? It's really intimidating. I want everybody listening to this who's used to a gym to think about how scary it is for a deconditioned person of any age, but especially a deconditioned person who's as old as your parent, to walk into a gym. It's terrifying. So, yeah, think about all that and then what it takes to get them to do something is a moment, a catalyst, and that catalyst can be the doctor saying Tom, you're going to have type 2 diabetes in about six months if you don't get off your ass and start doing something. Well, hopefully nobody wants type 2 diabetes. They can start reversing their life that diagnosis with some lifestyle choices. Maybe it's seriously the grandchild who won't play with Nana because Nana can't get off the floor, or because Nana smokes, smells like cigarettes, or because Nana gets tired and cranky whenever they want to play. That'll break your heart to have your grandchild say I don't want to play with you, or just any kind of thing where they are invited to do something and they can't do it. It could be a rafting trip, a hiking trip with the extended family on a reunion.

Speaker 2: 22:37

I know one man who his catalyst was when he's still working. He's a very high-powered executive still in the game, trying to climb the ladder, and his boss said hey, every year I take a group of people on an adventure. I'm taking you. This year we're going to climb Kilimanjaro. And he said we're going to do what now? Climb Kilimanjaro, are you kidding me? So he went to a gym and said hey, this has come up. I've got to go because it's the boss and I'm not backing down from this challenge. But I can't climb the stairs, let alone Kilimanjaro. He got in shape for that.

Speaker 2: 23:10

So there has to be some moment, a catalyst, that makes you go. I got to make a change. It's not going to be your wife telling you need to lose weight. It's not going to be looking in the mirror and thinking, oh hell, I'm getting fat again. It's going to be something that moves you in a way that all those previous warnings didn't, because you know you're overweight, you're deconditioned, you shouldn't be feeling this bad, but it takes something that's really emotional and powerful, like that.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yeah, and I love that. I have a series of copy that I use based on that exact concept, because I think what they're after is this they don't want to look embarrassed and they won't feel stupid. And a lot of times those events tend to make that happen and no one wants to stay that way. And it's funny because I have a whole bullet point that I used in my big book of marketing that people have ripped off many times and taking these exact bullets and a recent scolding from your doctor reunioning up and all of these things and all of it is to be used as this catalyst to avoid further humiliation and embarrassment. And it's honestly it's like weird to think like that, but that's it's what do they want? No one wants to feel that. No one wants to feel that, and so a lot of times in marketing you tend to and can call some of these things out to help people avoid that somewhat catastrophic thing that is.

Speaker 2: 24:49

Yeah, I try to do that with an emotional story. It's way worse than your pants not fitting.

Speaker 1: 24:52

It's way worse than your pants not fitting.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Yeah, because you can just shrug that off and say, oh hell, I look all right, move on. But when your doctor says you're type two, you better get on that, or you're the same age as when your mother fell and broke her hip and died a year later, and all these things that when you're 30, they sound like they're never going to happen and, trust me, at 61, I can see them all happening right now. So it's those stories, it's the emotional story that people connect to, and I guess that's what you and I try to help gym owners do is get to those emotional stories that the audience connects with and says, hey, I'm like that guy. I'm not Chris Hemsworth, I'm not an athlete, I'm not some fitness model, I'm just a normal dude. And I'm happy being a normal dude, but I need to lose some weight.

Speaker 1: 25:38

Yeah, that dovetails nicely into the next thing I wanted to ask you about, because you have a whole chapter on it on storytelling and I think that obviously your background in journalism has probably made you a great storyteller to be able to that's what your whole life was doing that. But I think, in the midst of what's going on with AI and all these things of how easy it is to create content, no one has an excuse anymore not to put out five ways to burn fat and there's a place for that kind of stuff. But the more people are getting numb to this AI, like this whole thing, like oh, that's AI, oh that's AI, oh that's AI.

Speaker 2: 26:11

You can spot it.

Speaker 1: 26:13

But it's really hard to pull out a, to pull it to say an AI was generated, a genuine story.

Speaker 1: 26:21

And so I think, and especially to like on video, if you can tell stories on video and in presentations, like I've made a living on showing up every Wednesday for two hours and talking to my group, I ain't throwing information at them for two hours and getting them to stay on the call Like we have a pretty high stick rate too they stay for the whole call. It is just a series of stories, one after the other, and answering questions, and using stories to answer the questions and everything like that.

Speaker 1: 26:51

And so if you were to in the short amount of time that we have, yeah teach a gym owner how to be a better storyteller yeah what would give us the pitch of what you would do?

Speaker 2: 27:07

yeah, sure, happy. That's a great question and I address that in the book. I give some tips on how to tell stories better, and not just in an airy-fairy I went to college kind of way, but in real, simple terms. So let's think of perhaps the most common story that a gym owner is likely to use, and that's a member profile, like a member of the month or something like that, which I hope everybody's doing. If you're not, you should be doing that. Of course, I often see them done really badly, as I'm sure you do too, and they will be all about how great the gym is, all about how nice the trainer is, all about how pleasant the facility is. Not a word about the client. Or they might have some questions, but you can tell that these questions were answered via email because there's never a follow-up and there's never any sense of a conversation. You can see the email went out saying what's your favorite part about Vince's gym I love the trainers period. What's your favorite movie Star Wars. What's your cheat meal Pizza. It's like who cares? Don't do it via email. Have a conversation with the person. Don't just throw out a bunch of questions.

Speaker 2: 28:23

The best stuff comes in the follow-up. It's like when you tell your kid she can't have ice cream and she says why? And you say because we're going to have dinner. And she says why? And you say because mommy made dinner. Why Be that kid? Keep saying why. And you do this in your sales calls already.

Speaker 2: 28:39

When people come in and say they want to lose weight and you say tell me more about that. That's what you have to do in the profiles is to get past the really boring, flat, generic answers and get to something that's real. So do them in person, ask follow-up questions and really listen and try to follow the format of before, during and after. So before, what was your life like? Before I was working 70 hours a week and raising three kids and I got fat. And then the kids went to college and I finally retired. And now I want to live a better life. Okay, what got you into the gym? The doctor said I was on the verge of type two. Okay, what's your life been in the six months since you've been working out at Vince's gym? How's your life got better?

Speaker 2: 29:22

Then you list those things. What do you want to do next? I want to go on vacation and climb Pike's Peak. That's a story. To go on vacation and climb Pikes Peak. That's a story, and Vince's gym is a secondary role in that story. It's not about how nice Vince is or how helpful the trainers are or how well lighted it is or any of that nonsense. It's about this person who life got out of control and you helped them get their life back. So keep the focus on person, not on you. I really don't care about you too much as the gym owner. I care about the person. What was their life before, what got them into your gym and what's their life like now, and then have a real conversation and listen to them.

Speaker 1: 30:04

Yeah, no, that's great. I think that it boggles my mind how people don't look around at all the. They're swimming in a sea of content every day in their gym, like all they have to do is walk out on the floor, and I found the conversations that you're talking about having those create the best headlines right. If you're a marketer like you should be listening to the things that you say and listening for the one thing that kind of pops out. That's all.

Speaker 1: 30:32

That's the start of the whole thing, and I remember I was talking to one client or he was telling me a story, and he came up to me and he's like oh, it's my 60th birthday. And he's like I was like great and he goes, I feel better at 60 than I did at 50. And I like stopped and I was just like holy shit, what had just happened there? And I looked to just stop right there and I stopped them from talking and went over and got a piece of paper and I wrote that down.

Speaker 2: 30:56

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 30:56

And I think it's important from a storytelling standpoint that we're paying attention to, because one of my biggest pet peeves on testimonial is I see this big lump paragraph that nobody reads, yeah, I see this big lump paragraph that nobody reads, yeah. And what we need to do as gym owners that are telling good stories, is pull out what is the best part of the story.

Speaker 2: 31:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:18

And then make that a headline and that's what people will read in a testimonial story. They're going to read the headline and if the headline gets them excited, they'll read the whole story. But I see a huge mistake of people putting these big lump paragraphs together and thinking someone's going to just read through that whole testimonial. You have to pull out the thing and I think what they need to pull out is exactly what you just said. Is you pull out the part that says before I was this, now I'm this and that's the transformation story.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Yeah, Give me a story. Story. Don't just tell me how great your gym is. You know that. First of all, it's not a story. Secondly, it's not about the client. And third, all I don't care. I care about the woman who can finally play with her grandbaby. I don't care about how many certifications you have can you talk about some?

Speaker 1: 32:09

you, as a journalism guy, one of the things that you probably had to do was create content, even when you didn't want to create content, right, yeah? You bet because you had the hardest thing in the world, which is called the deadline yeah with content and I think a lot of us.

Speaker 1: 32:23

We don't have deadlines, right. There's no publisher being like, hey, you gotta get your article in, I send a daily email and I'm my own publisher, right, I'm the one that decides if I send an email or not. And I think that takes a lot of discipline and it took me a lot of time to get to that point and I think obviously with AI it's become a lot easier to do. But what are your helpful hints, tips for people that, hey, I just can't get consistent with content creation? I do it once in a while, I do a little bit here and I do flurries of it, and then I go on a drought and don't do anything for two weeks. And then I, what are your as a journalism guy? What are your helpful hints to us that don't have someone holding us over our head to create content, meaning nothing happens if we don't do it, but we know we should.

Speaker 2: 33:14

I think it's something that you have to treat like any other component of your business. I think too many gym owners and probably small business owners in all industries, think it's a nice to have, or I'll do that when I feel like it or when I have time, or when my niece is back from summer, over summer break from college. She likes to do that. I feel like it, or when I have time, or when my niece is back from summer over summer break from college, she likes to do that. No, it's a part of your business. Bake it into your business plan, assign it to someone, make it a part of their job, or book an hour a week on your calendar so that everyone knows that from 10 to 11 on Tuesdays, vince, vince is doing his content, just like if Vince were having a team meeting or if Vince were doing sales calls or any other part of your job. If you don't take it seriously, then you're not going to do it.

Speaker 2: 33:59

I get it, but there are things I don't like to do. I'm really bad at numbers and accounting and all that stuff. I have to do it. I do what I have to and then I hire out for it, and not to plug myself here, or any of us who do what I do. But hire someone.

Speaker 2: 34:14

If you really can't make the time or develop the discipline to treat this like making sure that there's toilet paper in the stalls and that the showers are clean. If you can't do that, then pay someone to do it. I pay someone to do my taxes every year because, like I said, I can't add, let alone keep up with changes to all my deductions. So I pay someone to do that. So you can outsource it, sure, but mainly you've got to get your head around that. It's not just cute, it's not just nice and it's not just people who have time. Or I don't like Facebook. I don't like Facebook either. Vince, believe me, I would love life without Facebook. But it's the life we live, it's the world we're in. So accept it and deal with it and just treat it like another responsibility, because it really is.

Speaker 1: 35:04

You're a big email guy. How often should gym owners be emailing their list?

Speaker 2: 35:09

I say at least twice a week. That's what I do for my clients who subscribe to Prime Fit Content or some other clients that I have that I do specific work for their business. I do twice a week. Others in my line of work will tell you three times, or every day. I have a little bit of trouble selling that much, not selling it to get the money, selling the idea, promoting the idea, because people freak out at twice a week. But it's got to be at least twice a week because even once a week isn't enough.

Speaker 2: 35:42

I think that we all get so much email and so much content and so many marketing messages all the time that once a week they might not see it. Everyone's busy, everyone's not sitting there waiting for you to send them an email. They might not see it, they might not read it, they might forget it, they might be on vacation, what have you? So you need to be in front of them at least a couple of times a week and you need to be giving them good, relevant, engaging information that's going to make them want to hear from you. Relevant, engaging information. That's going to make them want to hear from you.

Speaker 2: 36:10

The biggest objection I hear, aside from. I don't have time to send email, which is don't get me started on that one but is I don't want to be a spammer and the only answer to that is that don't send spam. Simple Spam does not have to do with how much you email them. It has to do with what you email them, and if you email them crap every day, three times a day, then you're a spammer. If you email them useful, good information that's relevant to their lives, that they're going to enjoy, then that's just good business. They asked to be on your email list, they wanted to hear from you, and if they change their mind, they can unsubscribe. So I think a lot of people just need to get over this assumption that I don't like to read email, so I'm not going to send email. Do you know what I mean? You're laughing.

Speaker 1: 36:52

Oh yeah, it's funny. If there's one thing I've done well in my group, it is help people understand that they're haters. And the people that respond with all this screw you, take me off your list, you suck those types of things that you get, that you will get if you go frequently enough. We have now shifted because it used to be, people would freak out when they got those emails and they would post the emails in the Facebook group and they would be like what do I do here? I think I'm doing something wrong. I think I'm emailing my list too many times. The posts have shifted to them, posting the emails in the group, screenshots of the emails and them with this badge of honor saying I'm finally doing email because I'm getting someone to hate me.

Speaker 1: 37:45

That's right and I think it's a total mindset shift, but it's like crazy what a few years has done.

Speaker 2: 37:52

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:52

Just me parping into their head. It's just like Kennedy has a line. It's like you haven't pissed anyone off by noon. You're not marketing hard enough.

Speaker 2: 38:01

Yeah, I'm glad you said that. Do you have time for a quick story? I sent out an email for this gym just within the last couple of weeks and had a bunch of good stuff and at the bottom it had. I often will include an inspirational quote or something like that. That's just type on a plain background, and this time instead I copied something I saw on social media about the Coldplay concert where the guy was caught with his mistress.

Speaker 1: 38:27

No, I didn't hear about that.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Yeah, it's Coldplay. Is this band? It's a rock and roll band.

Speaker 1: 38:33

No, I never heard about the mistress thing.

Speaker 2: 38:35

Oh seriously.

Speaker 1: 38:36

I'm totally joking. Okay, you had me there.

Speaker 2: 38:39

I thought you were joking, and then I thought oh my gosh, is it possible he didn't hear?

Speaker 1: 38:42

about this I've never seen that was bigger than when Trump got shot.

Speaker 2: 38:52

It shot it was, and so after two or three weeks later I put this at the bottom of my email for this gym just text on a plain background that said if a CEO has time to run a company, raise three kids and run around with a girlfriend and still get tickets to the Coldplay concert, then you have time to work out. Okay, I thought it was funny. I heard back from the gym owner because one person on his email list wrote him and said I was just about to share your email with some friends because I think they would enjoy it and want to join your gym. But then I got to the bottom and I read that joke about cold play and that was just cruel to his wife and children. You should do better.

Speaker 1: 39:33

What was he saying? What was his response?

Speaker 2: 39:36

He said that we would try to be more sensitive in the future and I wanted to say it's just a joke and it's not sexist, it's not demeaning, it's not hurtful. You can't please everyone. One person didn't like it. I don't know what else can I say about that. But the thing that was lost in all of this was Did Jim O'Reilly ask you to tone it back?

Speaker 2: 40:00

No, I just said I'm sorry I caused you some friction, is how I put it, and that's legit. I am sorry that someone didn't like it, but it's not like I'm out here telling jokes, sexist jokes or something, it's just Anyway. So what he missed and the point I want to make here, what you were saying, the woman said I love this email and I was just about to share it with my friends because it's so good. Hello, that's the message. Message yeah, marketing is working. She's gonna send it to her friends because she likes it so much. Cold play aside, was doing something right.

Speaker 1: 40:40

I love it. I love it. Yeah, no, it's really. It builds up. I did a whole lesson on this at one of my most recent mastermind meetings, called Immunity to Criticism, which is a concept I learned from the great Dan Kennedy, who basically says if you're going to achieve any type of success in your life, you have to start I don't know becoming totally immune. I think that's really hard to be 100%, completely immune, Like Trump is the guy that's completely, 100% immune to criticism. I have gotten myself to that point not even close, but way better than I used to be, Like way better. If I get an email with someone responding and says Vince, you're an effing moron, Don't ever email me again, You're a piece of crap, I laugh at it and I'll screenshot it and I'll use it in my next email. So that's it's so. Come a long way, but I think that's one of the things about and we've gone on a little bit of a rabbit hole.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Our original question was how many days a week should you email? Oh, at least twice.

Speaker 1: 41:46

And it's led to a way more important topic than that, because the frequency topic, while, yeah, two, three, four, whatever it is my, one of my favorite lines is what are the best days to email your list, and the answer being on the days that you want to get paid.

Speaker 2: 42:02

Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1: 42:04

I subscribe Not my Jim's a three-day week Jim email list, but my newsletter for this business is every day and never miss a day. But I think it led us to down a way more important point of when you're going to create consistent content you do open yourself up.

Speaker 2: 42:23

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:23

There's the fear of people not liking it when you do it more. There's the fear of people saying why are you emailing me so much and all of that? And I think that's an important growth lesson for people to get through that.

Speaker 2: 42:37

Yeah, it is, and I don't want to give the idea that you shouldn't be sensitive to your audience's concerns. Obviously, I'm not going to send something that is blatantly offensive or off point. This one just surprised me because the Coldplay thing had been beat to death for two weeks. How am I hurting anyone? Anyway, whatever, but there are things I'm not going to do.

Speaker 2: 42:58

I deliberately intentionally always avoid controversy. I never talk about politics or a political figure or a political issue. No one cares what I think about, or which TV network I watch, or if I like Trump or don't like Trump. No one cares. And the most important thing about not going down those paths and not just about politics, but about anything controversial going down those paths and not just about politics, but about anything controversial is because you then lose the. You lose control of the conversation and instead of talking about fitness or your gym or your specials or how great your trainers are whatever you is, it is that you wanted to talk about You're now talking about these other things that have nothing to do with your intention. So it is important to keep to your keep in your lane.

Speaker 1: 43:46

Yeah, let's talk about becoming an authority. I know that is a chapter in the book and it's interesting. One of the most downloaded podcasts that I've created is the title of the podcast was how to get famous in your community, and I'm like really surprised by that. I've had a lot of podcasts. I've been podcasting since 2018. And of all the once a week since 2018 and many times multiple podcasts in a week and seven years later, like that still is the number one download podcast. Yes, oh, that's great.

Speaker 1: 44:22

How to get famous in your community. Yeah, and so you talk about becoming an authority in the book, can you? And obviously, storytelling is a big thing of doing it. Consistent content is another way to do it, but what did you describe in the book as the way that gym owners can become authorities? And let's link it to our specific population, right? How do we become an authority for the 50-year-old market, as you've done for yourself?

Speaker 2: 44:52

First of all, I'm going to listen to that podcast, seriously, today. I'm going to listen to that episode because that's really relevant to what we're talking about. Everybody wants to be, if not popular, then at least well-known. I think with any specific audience, you have to learn about them. I've had gym owners tell me I don't know anything about training old people. How am I supposed to know anything about that? And I said can you learn? Can you take a certification through one of the training organizations I think a lot of them have them now and there's organizations like Functional Aging Institute that have them and you can learn how to train specifically for older people.

Speaker 2: 45:30

You can express curiosity, you can open your eyes and your ears and your heart a little bit.

Speaker 2: 45:56

You need to connect the messaging and the content with community involvement in real life and with the customer experience so that everything is aligned to crank out clients who are your biggest ambassadors, people who maybe saw your Facebook ad and then got your email newsletter and then came in or met you at a 5k because you were smart enough to have a table at the community fun run and then came in and had a great experience initially and repeatedly and got the results that they wanted.

Speaker 2: 46:17

I think another thing is to engage with your community in a way that a lot of people don't want to do these days. They want to stay online and just do it all on Facebook. Engage traditional media If that's a small town newspaper, if that's a free weekly, if that's a good morning Austin kind of TV show, whatever it is, get yourself out there, be a part of your community. Sponsor a little league team, whatever it is. But I think the main thing is to learn what the heck you're doing and then align a positive user experience with all your messaging so that people come away thinking, yeah, this guy really delivered and I'm going to tell people about it.

Speaker 1: 47:00

Yeah, I think it's also knowing the market too. I think about what you're doing with becoming the guru for the 50 plus gym that wants to market to that business. You've really done a good job of knowing the market and I know. For me that was like I started at GFP and we started with middle school kids. We transferred to adults. We just knew the market really well and we said things that they wanted to hear. Same thing I've now become an authority in the gym space. I knew the market right, I spoke to the market.

Speaker 1: 47:36

So I think that's one of the biggest things and that's like marketing 101 is know your market yeah but I guess, picking a specific niche right to become an authority, it narrows down the things you need to do and the things you need to know, and so I think that's a really powerful piece of it is. A lot of times, people that that go mainstream have a tough time becoming an authority because their their is so widespread. It takes them forever to become the authority, so niching down, which is exactly what you're talking about in the book.

Speaker 2: 48:11

Yeah, If you say to a new gym owner who's your gym for and he says, oh, it's for everybody, I said no, it's not. First of all, it can't be. Secondly, it's not so. Thirdly, let's narrow that down a bit. Is it for everybody? Then you can name three or four groups right off the top of your head who it's probably not for. It's probably not for people with severe handicaps, it's probably not for the very, very old and infirm, it's probably not for D1 athletes. You can name a lot of people it's not for. So stop saying that and then think about who is it for and how you choose your target audience can be any number of. You can come to it any number of ways If you want to do it. For who's got the most economic potential today and for the coming years? It's this demographic period.

Speaker 1: 49:05

Yeah, I'm going to end with this this. This has been an awesome conversation, jay, so I you're a new. I was reading through your bio and talked about all your years in journalism and you're writing newspaper and I want people to think about the old days of marketing, where even think pre-internet where you had to put an article in a magazine or a newspaper and they had to read that piece of content. They had to go to a website or a phone number and download something, or even before that to I.

Speaker 1: 49:43

It boggles my mind that this actually happened, that they used to put these things in magazines called order forms yes, and people would take a pen and they would fill out their credit card information on the order form, put a stamp on it and send it in the mail and then wait for the thing to come. Yeah, it absolutely boggles my mind. That was a real thing. But I think about how good and how much better the internet has ruined it for us. We don't have to be that great. You have to be able to stand out more. There's so much more competition and everything like that for sure, so you have to be able to stand out. But at the end of the day, it's so much easier to get someone to reply to an email, to this. And a lot of that started with print and I never considered myself a good marketer until I started really getting successful with newspaper ads. And in 2001, sorry, 2021, we relaunched Grit Sports Performance, our sports performance program. 2021, we relaunched GRIT sports performance, our sports performance program Solely went from zero to $25,000 a month in legitimately just newspaper ads. Really, yes, because and this question I'm going to get to and it is very self-serving but because there was this local.

Speaker 1: 51:00

I just moved into my new house and there was this local. I just moved into my new house and there was this local newspaper that was for like eight pages but it was like a black and white old school newspaper. And I'm looking through I was like do people actually read this thing? And I'm looking through I was like there are ads in here. And I was like I tried it and I tried marketing. I did a full page ad, big one, very direct response style, put a lot of time into it and it exploded. And then I did it again, and then I did it again, and then I did it for four years straight until we pretty much were selling the program out without them. Your market is 50 plus Imagining 50 plus. People still read publications that are print.

Speaker 2: 51:45

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:45

What is your best advice to someone that wants to possibly dabble in that game?

Speaker 2: 51:50

Yeah, the first bit of advice is maybe not over 50, but probably over 60 or 65. Because over 50 is too big to be a niche. So if you say Is it true, though?

Speaker 1: 52:02

I heard that over 50 gets the yellow pages. Is that true?

Speaker 2: 52:06

Do they even make the yellow pages anymore?

Speaker 1: 52:09

Yes, they still make the yellow pages, but it only gets sent to a certain age group. I don't know if it was 50 or 60. I could be wrong, but I believe if you're over 50 that you get the yellow pages, or something like that.

Speaker 2: 52:22

I'm not familiar with that one. I don't know about that. I just think that-.

Speaker 1: 52:25

You should look into that, because that's a good one for your market.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Yeah, it is. I think people in my demographic whether it's 50 or 60 or whatever generally read. If I were doing this for 20-somethings, I'd be on TikTok. I wouldn't be writing blog posts and email newsletters. So people want to read emails and they want to read what you put on social media and they want to read what you have on your website, absolutely. So that's important.

Speaker 2: 52:50

And as far as reading the newspaper, I would say this those small newspapers that you're talking about are super important. I live in Atlanta. I don't know that the Atlanta Journal-Constitution would be helpful for a neighborhood gym, because the city is so big and the paper goes to people over many miles, and is it going to be effective for something that serves a neighborhood? I don't know. It was way back in the day. It was much more complicated than now. But the community newspapers that you might just see tossed on lawns or front porches and throw away, because who's going to read this?

Speaker 2: 53:27

People in this demographic do read them, and if you can advertise in them like you did, that's great. And if you can write a weekly column in them about how to feel great after 50, how to kick ass in your retirement, whatever it is editors of those kind of publications are going to be really open to that. And then you've got that byline and mugshot and tagline at the end of the column every week saying Vince Gabriel runs Vince's gym down on Main Street. Come in for 50% off tomorrow, whatever. That's spectacular exposure for you. I know 20-year-olds don't read it, but yeah, 60-year-olds do, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 54:07

Awesome, awesome, very good. Yeah, I love the print stuff just because I think it really tests you as a marketer and I'm not saying for everyone to run out and just start doing print. It does take time, even like direct mail, which I've had much less success with direct mail than I have with print newspapers and magazines. But I think if you do find a local magazine in your area like I'm not the only one that's done it. We've had many of our clients in us that have succeeded with local print stuff. But I think you're right, it's got to be a local rag, something that is like almost town specific. That's going to be really much. Get much more local eyeballs on it. Jay, where can people go to get your book? Where are you at? Are you selling the book? Are you giving it away? Where are we at right now with the book launch?

Speaker 2: 54:52

You can get it for free on my website, which is primefitcontentcom. I think right now it's just a free PDF. I'm going to eventually change that to get a copy, but if you want to shoot me an email and give me your mailing address, I'll be happy to put one in the mail to you. My email is jayj at primefitcontentcom and it's for sale on amazoncom as well. It's called Selling Longevity Over 50. Fitness can transform lives and your business.

Speaker 1: 55:21

And then plug your podcast too, because I really like your podcast. It's the Optimal Aging Podcast, right.

Speaker 2: 55:27

That's right. So the business Prime Fit Content is primarily about just how to get people into your gym. Optimal Aging is a little broader than that, and I talk about things that are not so specifically about the gym or even specifically about growing your business, but more like the things that you and I have been talking about for the last few minutes, vince the ideas of marketing and communications and how do you reach them regarding all sorts of things related to fitness and health and well-being. So that's Optimal Aging Once a week. You can get it wherever you get your podcasts and you can watch it on YouTube. I just started doing video version about six months ago. People told me to do it for years and I finally did.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Excellent, excellent Jay. Keep up the good work. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate the insights and how genuine of a guy you are and how much you put into all the work and the content that you're putting out there. So definitely go get Jay's book Selling Longevity. I have a copy here right here that I have read through and really loved it. Excellent job with the book and keep up the great work.

Speaker 2: 56:35

Thank you, vince, thanks for having me. I appreciate it.